AUSTIN, Texas — Austin Police Department Chief Joseph Chacon has a few more sentiments to share before he heads into the next chapter of his life.
On Aug. 20, Chacon announced he will be stepping down from his position and retiring from the department. His chief of staff, Robin Henderson, will serve as interim chief until what is expected to be a months-long search for his replacement.
Chacon's last day will be Friday, Sept. 1.
On Wednesday, the chief sat down for a one-on-one interview with KVUE's Rob Evans to talk about his career, the department and what's next for him.
A full transcript of the interview can be found below. Some of the questions have been edited for clarity.
Q: Why the decision to retire?
A: "You know, it is a very personal decision. You know, I think the question I've been asked the most is, is probably that question. And I think that there is no one thing that I can point to to say, 'That's what caused me to do it.' And certainly nothing related to to the job. It was really about spending more time with my family, about a 31-year career that I was really just ready to transition to the next role, whatever that is – haven't completely figured that out yet. And, you know, it's just my time, you know? There comes a point where you just know."
Q: When did you finally know?
A: "It's been, I've been thinking about this for months. And, you know, of course, the first conversation I had was with my family about whether it was the right time or not. I had had some conversations with very close friends and mentors and then, ultimately, started talking to the city manager about, you know, what that transition would look like and how we could make it happen. And so, that that was a series of months, really. But then once it happened, you know, I feel like it happened really fast. But that was pretty intentional. I didn't want to create a level of anxiety and unknown with the department about who was going to be taking over. Once that, you know, Chief Henderson was named as, you know, the incoming interim chief, it's important for me to step aside and let her take the department over."
Q: You said that you didn't think this was a possibility to be chief, for many years. Why is that?
A: "There was never my intention to be the chief. I really just wanted to be a to be a police officer, right? So when I moved from El Paso over here to Austin because we had my wife and I had fallen in love with Austin several years before, I just wanted to have a good career. I knew this is where we wanted to plant roots, we wanted to continue to raise our family. And and then over time, I just started taking promotional exams and then realized, you know, this might be a possibility. And it wasn't really until, you know, the mid-2010s that I even started really thinking about, there's an opportunity to maybe become part of the executive staff of the department and then ultimately to become the chief."
Q: Two years in the role – do you feel like it was enough time for you to get what you wanted to get done or not enough time?
A: "No, no, it's not. You know, I really would have probably, you know, love to, in better times, maybe, or easier times, I'm not sure – I'm not sure there's ever an easy time for a big city chief – but to have stayed a little bit longer. The thing is, you know, just looking at where I was in my life and, you know, how old I am and how much longer I still want to, how much longer I still want to work. And doing that right now is is part of the reason why I decided to go ahead and do it right when I decided to do it. We still had a lot of things to accomplish at the department."
Q: What's next?
A: "You know, I don't have that entirely figured out. I think it will still, you know, law enforcement, it will always be in my blood. And I think that that's kind of where my skills lie. So it [will] probably something in the field. But what that is, I'm almost positive I will not be a chief ever again for another department. I'm not moving to another city or another department to do that. I want to maybe look at the profession as a whole. What can I do to really have an impact and be relevant in that area?"
Q: Talk about why you told your fellow City of Austin employees to hold their heads up in your retirement announcement.
A: "I tell that to my officers quite a bit because, you know, the profession, it's a tough time to be a police officer. It's hard to recruit, it's hard to retain. And I think that, you know, folks can can get beat down with the, kind of the national rhetoric around and even some to some degree, the local rhetoric around around policing. But I try to remind my officers as often as I can: This is an incredibly noble profession, what we do. You know, it's not overstating it when you say that we save lives. And I'm certainly talking about my officers here, as they go out and do their daily work. They're doing things that are impactful and that are meaningful to this community and are meaningful to individuals. Don't ever lose sight of that. So, even as people will tell you that, you know, that you're not doing a good thing, you really are. So, hold your head up and please make sure that, you know, you carry that with you. Because it just makes a difference in our daily interactions."
Q: Talk about the morale at APD. Two years ago, you came aboard. How much have you been able to improve the morale within the force in those two years?
A: "Well, I'm not going to sit here and say that I think morale was good. It's not. And I think that, you know, and that's for all the reasons that I've been talking about with, you know, just the rhetoric around policing today. I think it's better than it was two years ago when I took over. I think we've been able to to make some some good improvements and to do some good things. Things like not having a contract impact morale, right? So we need to get back under contract as soon as we can. But overall, you know, leading, I think the department and I talk about our officers being servant leaders. When you lead with integrity, it is going to lead to to better morale over time."
Q: How do you try and raise your team up when you're dealing with the no contract, when you're dealing with the budget cut by a third a couple of years ago, when you're dealing with so many other issues?
A: "So, you know, one of the things you're absolutely right, it's a struggle and trying to help people to hold their head up and keep their morale up, right? But, you know, some of the message that that I tend to go around and really try to impart is don't worry about the things that you can't control because then they begin to control you. What you can control within your your sphere of influence as a police officer is helping people, is doing a really good job, being good at your profession. And through that, when we do that as a whole, we make our community and our part of society better. So concentrate on that. And the messaging that I've got back from my officers has been very positive around that and saying, 'That really helped me. That helped me to refocus on what was important to me and stop letting the rhetoric control me.'"
Q: You're down how many officers right now?
A: So off of my authorized strength, I think about 340, pretty close to 340 officers. That's a large number.
Q: How do you recruit in a place where you're dealing with those issues we talked about?
A: "So, you know, I'm encouraged in this area because, you know, we're getting ready to start a class next month with, it's one of our big classes we've started in some time with over 50 cadets. We, you know, we have two classes. One will graduate next week, and then another one that's going on right now. So we've got folks that are still wanting to serve, still want to be part of the profession, and they want to be part of the Austin Police Department. The other thing on the recruiting side that I would say is we've made significant improvements and strides in our 911 call center, and I know that has been a topic that our public is very interested and concerned about. And I can tell you that, you know, we have made significant progress with regard to pay, benefits, working conditions for those folks. And we are starting more call takers and dispatchers now in the center than we've started in a really long time. So we're really, really making good progress in that area as well."
Q: Do you still have the detective and sergeants answering 911 calls?
A: "They still do it a little bit, but it's getting better to where we don't really have to utilize them as much to do that and we have the folks that are actually dedicated to doing it."
Q: What do you think are the characteristics the next leader is going to have to have to be able to fight through these challenges?
A: "You've got to have really a high degree, really the highest degree of integrity and to be true to your own ideals and to the profession and to doing what's right. You also have to have a lot of courage and step out when you need to and say the things that need to be said, even though you will be criticized for it and the department may be criticized for it, but you know that it's the right thing to do. And then caring deeply about the officers and and, importantly, about the community. There's a balance to be, you know, certainly to be struck there to making sure that you're taking care of your officers, but you're also holding them accountable because that's the expectation of their community. So being able to do all those things – and about a million more – I think is going to be important for for being a good chief."
Q: Does it matter, internal versus external, when it comes to the hiring process?
A: "Oh, yeah, very much so. So, you know, I think an internal candidate will always have an advantage, knowing the department and and the officers knowing that individual and the community knowing that individual. Chief Robin Henderson stepping in right now, couldn't ask for a better person to do it. She is going to be a phenomenal interim chief for this department. The cops know her, trust her and love her. And I think that she also has really good relationships with a lot of our community stakeholders already in place."
Q: We're talking about a nationwide search. Do you think it will be hard to find people outside of the Austin Police Department to see what's going on and apply for this position?
A: "I think that remains to be seen. You know, I think, you know, any time you have a search, it's a little bit challenging because you want a good fit. And just because they might have their credentials, it might look good on paper, they might not necessarily be a good fit for this community. So I think that's always a challenge. We'll see how it goes."
Q: Let's talk about the union contract. What do you foresee? What do you think needs to be done?
A: "I think that both sides need to be at the negotiation table. That's Step . And I have encouraged, I know the City is ready to go back to the table when when the union feels like the timing is right. I've been in in conversations with the union president, certainly, about getting back to the table. And I'm hopeful that both sides will get back there because that's what this department needs for stability – in addition to, you know, a permanent chief, that is a very, very big part of that."
Q: What are you most proud of, not just the past two years as chief, but from your 25 years with APD?
A: "Well, you know, I can, you know, just looking back at my career as a whole, I've always, you know, my favorite part of being a police officer was doing investigations, being a detective. That was my favorite rank because we were impacting, we were impacting crime. And towards the end of that, that stint, it was violent crime. I was working, you know, in homicide investigations and robbery investigations. I loved doing that kind of work. As a chief, I think that the relationships that we built in the community, which have, I think, have improved during my tenure, as well as, you know, some of the things that we've been able to do to increase transparency, like the releasing the videos within 10 days when we have a critical incident, the sexual assault investigation improvements that we've been able to make and a few other things that I think, you know, are going to be a legacy that will help in those areas of both trust building and, you know, improved victim outcomes for victims of crime."
Q: Going back to the 2020 social justice protests, what was that like? What was your mindset going through that?
A: "It was a chaotic time, and I'm not sure that folks have a really good sense of that. You know, and I hate that that some of our officers are under indictment now. And I just think that, you know, obviously now it's in the hands of the court and that process is going to have to play itself out. I will always support the officers now and, you know, moving forward when I'm no longer in the seat, I think that they were doing what, you know, the best they could under very, very challenging circumstances. We had some tragic outcomes that came out of that that, you know, certainly, I put some things into place that to help prevent that from ever happening again. You know, and so, I'm really, really hopeful that will see some some closure and good outcomes out of all of that."
Q: What has the City's approach to homelessness been like for you? Have you agreed with it? Do you think that there's a better way to handle this?
A: "You know, I think, you know, we were part of the response really around the whole homelessness effort in trying to find a way that balanced being compassionate and being a human being with, all at the same time, trying to to maintain law and order. And I think that we we did as good a job as we could in trying to balance that. I think we've made significant improvements. The City has been very intentional about putting a lot of resources, that it being a multidisciplinary approach as opposed to strictly, 'Hey, let's arrest our way out of this problem.' We know that we can't do that, right? So let's get a lot of departments involved and try and come up with a plan. I think that that plan has been advancing over the last couple of years, and particularly under our interim city manager Jesús Garza has, we've made some really good strides in that area. So, you know, I expect that the public will see continued improvement in in all facets, right? Including, you know, helping those folks to get back up on their feet, if that's what's required. But also that we're maintaining and abiding by the law."
Q: What do you want the public to know that they don't know? About the police force, Austin, you?
A: "Well, what I hope they can take away from from all of this is that we've got a department that you know, of really, really great people. These are people that show up. And, you know, even today, where it's really hard to think about becoming a police officer, we see our people signing up in the hundreds. To say, 'Hey, I'd really like to to serve in this capacity.' Those are the folks that we're graduating, that are coming out into a really tough job where they're making split second decision sometimes, but are doing it with a servant's heart and are really trying to to help people. And I don't want the public to lose sight of that. I think we've got a department full of people that really want to do that. You know, it is a bittersweet moment and glad, you know, certainly to be starting my next chapter. But at the same time, I want to help set this this department up for success, in whatever small way that I can so that it continues successfully into the future."
Q: The DPS partnership – was that a struggle for you or something you welcomed? What was that like to you? Because you were caught in the middle of that.
A: "You know, to some degree, you can't help but feel like that I think a little bit, because we are the law enforcement, you know, the main law enforcement agency in in this area. And so, you know, I certainly welcomed them coming in. I thought they were a good force multiplier for us and being able to help to, you know, kind of get a handle on our violent crime in the city and to do, to look at traffic safety and some other issues. I think, you know, certainly, I think probably everybody, if we go back and do things a little bit differently, you know, we might do that. I was trying to be very intentional about the way that we were deploying, to make sure that I was listening to the community and that we were making adjustments based on the feedback that we have gotten from the community. So, at some point, I hope we get them back. I really do. I think that, you know, at least as a formal partnership, I know they're still here. I just don't have the insight as a chief any longer into what they're doing. And I don't think that's necessarily a good thing because there is no formal partnership. So, hopefully, we can get that going again in the future."
Q: Not knowing what's going on in your city is probably a problem.
A: "Yeah, I mean, like, they've always been here. And they don't they don't share with me, 'Hey, here's what we're working on.' You know, when we had a good formal partnership that was happening, and we knew exactly how they were deploying, where they were going and so forth. So that helped us to, you know, on how we were going to deploy. So, we really don't have that anymore. And I'm hopeful we can get it back at some point."
Q: Is there anything else that you want to add?
A: "What I would wrap up with, I think is just, you know, like a thank you to this community for giving me the opportunity to do this job, which I viewed as a complete honor and privilege, to be able to serve as a chief in this city and help keep it safe. It wasn't something I took lightly. It was a job that I worked as hard as I could every single day. I know my officers do as well, and they're going to be in good hands with Chief Henderson. She is going to, you know, pick up the torch and run with it and keep keep the city safe. She takes that as seriously as I did. But it was an absolute honor to be able to do this. And I just want to say thank you to the community."