Still No Justice: A 5-part podcast covering deaths at the hands of Texas law enforcement
The podcast tells the stories of unarmed people whose deaths occurred after confrontations with police.
"Still No Justice," a new five-part podcast series from KVUE and VAULT Studios, looks into incidents where Texas law enforcement officers were directly or indirectly involved in the deaths of unarmed people.
Demands for racial justice have increased as the deaths of unarmed Black and Hispanic Americans by police have reached the consciousness and the conscience of a nation. This podcast series tells the stories of unarmed people of no apparent threat whose deaths occurred after confrontations with police.
Episode 1 The death of Javier Ambler
Episode one of Still No Justice examines Javier Ambler's death at the hands of Williamson County Sheriff's Office deputies – and whether the popular, now canceled, TV show "Live PD" played a role in the incident.
Below is a transcript of the episode, which can be listened to on KVUE's YouTube channel or on any major podcast platform.
Host Bob Garcia-Buckalew: “OK, it’s past midnight in Austin, Texas. I’m walking down East St. John’s Avenue a few blocks from Interstate 35. You can hear the dull roar of traffic from that highway. I see porch lights illuminating older homes, most of them with well-kept yards with shade trees. This is the corner of East St. John’s and Bethune Avenue. And this is where on a cool night in March in 2019, some of the people who live in these homes suddenly awoke to flashing red lights and the sounds of sirens. There had been a traffic wreck, a single-vehicle coming to a stop into a clump of bushes – the white Honda Pilot SUV didn’t appear to be badly damaged in the crash. Law officers were there immediately. They had been chasing the SUV. And after it wrecked, they ordered the driver out of the vehicle and onto the ground to be handcuffed. He didn’t have a weapon, but he appeared agitated and confused, so there was a struggle to get the handcuffs on him as he was being held face down on the ground. Police used a taser to shock him several times. As he lay on the ground, finally handcuffed and in the custody of police, the man named Javier Ambler was dead.”
KVUE Senior Reporter Tony Plohetski: “His death barely made headlines. There was only a brief mention about an in-custody death in the local newspaper and on television and the television stations covered it and maybe 10 to 15 seconds. Then everyone moved on.”
Garcia-Buckalew: “Why had police been chasing the man? And why was it that even after he had been restrained and was no threat for running away how was it that he died? The answers would be hard to come by. What was known was that the chase had begun in the county north of Austin. Williamson County, known to viewers of the nationally televised cable TV show 'Live PD,' for allowing camera crews to ride along with sheriff’s deputies as they made traffic stops and arrests. And it was one of those deputies who initiated the chase. It began in Williamson County and ended in the crash on East St. Johns Avenue in neighboring Travis County – that’s where Austin is located. But little else was made public. In the days and months that followed his death, the sheriff’s office in Williamson County withheld details about the chase and provided no information about how the man in custody had died.”
Plohetski: “The community moved on. The journalism community moved on. The sheriff posted just a brief tweet on his page announcing that there had been an in-custody death and that no other information was available.”
Garcia-Buckalew: “The story might have ended there. But nearly a year after the man’s death in police custody, Tony Plohetski – a reporter for Austin TV station KVUE and the daily newspaper The American-Statesman got a tip that investigators were growing frustrated because they weren’t getting any information from the Williamson County Sheriff’s Office about how the man in the SUV had died surrounded by deputies and police.”
Plohetski: “There was a death in custody and that investigators, from what I was understanding, were having trouble getting the information that they needed to get to feel satisfied. And their investigation was particularly intriguing to me.”
RELATED: ‘I can’t breathe!’ | Video released from 2019 death of Austin-area black man in deputies’ custody
Garcia-Buckalew: “And so, began a nearly two-year quest to find out what had really happened that night in March 2019 on East St. John’s Avenue. And to find out more about Javier I talked to his sister Kim.”
Kim Moore, Ambler's sister: “He was a good guy, you know, and he didn't deserve the treatment that he received that night. And he deserves to still be here with us. He deserves to still be here with his kids”
Garcia-Buckalew: “Javier, who was black, was 40 years old when he died. He was a former postal worker, the father of three boys, said to have never had an enemy, and who was close to his sister Kim.”
Moore: “We're really, really close family. People tell us all the time that they loved it, see our family together because our bond is like a lot of people don't have that. But he was really, really close with obviously me and him are close. But my parents as well. He was a mama's boy. Definitely. He could do no wrong in her eyes. He loved her. He would every time he would walk in the house, he'd give her a kiss on her head. That was like just every single time. I love you, mom.”
Maritza Ambler, Javier Ambler's mother: “He was loving. He was caring. He would give his last to anyone if they were in need.”
Garcia-Buckalew: “Javier played football in college, and afterwards, held several jobs, first as a postal service employee, then as an apartment complex manager. But he wanted something more.”
Moore: “He wanted to do his own business. And he started doing culinary and hosting like different events. He would cater. His goal was to get a food truck. And that's what he was working on, was to get a food truck and continue this, because a lot of people really enjoyed his food and, you know, so they were really supporting him in the area like this. He looks like a big football player and he's over here catering to a baby shower like something so, you know, precious. So, he just, you know, he was just that person.”
Garcia-Buckalew: “Of course Javier’s family wanted to know more about how he died. What had led up to it? How could a nonviolent man – a big teddy bear of a man as some people described him – how could a man who was unarmed die as he lay in the grass along St. Johns Avenue? For Tony, the reporter, digging for information became a challenging task.
Plohetski: “So I actually started doing my first open records requests. My first request for information to the Williamson County Sheriff's Department around that time in February of this year, I learned that the Williamson County Sheriff's Office was actually not going to release any information to me whatsoever. Under Texas law, when a government agency declines or refuses to release information to the public under a request under the Texas public information act. They must seek an opinion from the Texas attorney general's office about whether or not they can lawfully and legally they withhold that information.”
Garcia-Buckalew: “The sheriff's office said information was being withheld because of an ongoing investigation. But because of Tony’s request, they were required to get the Texas attorney general’s opinion on whether to make the report publicly available.”
Plohetski: “So keep in mind, months passed. Then comes the month of May, and we all, of course, become aware of what happened in Minneapolis with George Floyd. And it was really just four days after that when all of a sudden I’m sitting at home at my desk working and I get an email from the Williamson County Sheriff's Office and included in that email, or at least some records relating to the death of Javier ambler.”
Garcia-Buckalew: “The attorney general’s ruling forced the sheriff’s office to release the information that had been hidden from the public and from Javier’s family. The picture became clearer. From the information released by the sheriff’s office, Tony discovered some of what happened the night Javier died. According to his reporting, Deputy J.J. Johnson was patrolling the quiet suburban roads in March 2019 when Javier drove past him with his bright headlights on and wouldn’t dim them. The deputy turned his car around and flipped on his flashing lights. Javier didn’t stop. Johnson began chasing him. Tony wrote: 'for the next 22 minutes, the two vehicles sped across highways and onto neighborhood streets. As they crossed into Travis County, Austin officers were instructed not to get involved in the pursuit because they are allowed only to chase dangerous criminals. Ambler smashed his Honda pilot into stationary objects four times before crashing a final time near East St. John's and Bethune Avenues, just north of downtown Austin at 1:45 a.m.' So, we learned why Javier was being chased…but there was still a lot we didn’t know.”
Plohetski: “As soon as I received these reports, what was not included was any sort of dash camera or body camera footage. But I knew that Austin police had arrived at the scene. In fact, one Austin police officer arrived at the scene as it was unfolding. And so, I began an appeal with the Austin police department and the Travis County District Attorney's Office who were investigating this again because Javier Ambler died in the City of Austin and Travis County. So, I submitted open records request, a request under the Texas Public Information Act for that video. It is highly unusual for law enforcement officials to release body camera footage or dash camera footage, as well as a lot of other or evidence in cases involving in-custody death or in a case that might involve criminal charges. But I appeal to them to release the video to me. And what we saw on the video really widened the lens on what happened that night, far beyond what the deputies wrote in their reports.”
Garcia-Buckalew: “Now, it’s important to stop here and remind you that what you’re about to hear are the last few minutes of Javier Ambler’s life recorded on a bodycam belonging to an Austin police officer who was not involved in the chase. It’s not easy to listen to, of course, and some of the audio is hard to hear because of the sound of a police siren. And be aware that we’ve edited out portions of the sound from the video when no one is speaking. It begins almost immediately after the chase ends.”
Bodycam audio from (police): “10-50, 10-50 he just crashed right in front of me.”
Garcia-Buckalew: “The deputy orders him out of the SUV and says give me your hands or I’ll tase you again.”
Bodycam audio from (police): “Give me your hands or I’ll tase you again.”
Garcia-Buckalew: “Javier would be tased four times during the ordeal. Barely audible, Javier, who weighs 400 pounds, says “I have congestive heart failure” something he would repeat as officers tried to handcuff. By now, he is on the ground and not able to get away. He says “I can’t breathe” he seems confused as police try to put handcuffs on him.
Bodycam audio from (police): “Give me your hand, give me your hand!” flat on your stomach.”
Garcia-Buckalew: “Javier says it again – “I can’t breathe.” He repeated that several times, but officers failed to acknowledge that and worked to keep him pinned down on his stomach. The body cam shows Javier tased a fourth time, this time at close range on the back of his neck.”
Bodycam audio from (police): “I got my knee on him now to control him.”
Garcia-Buckalew: “Police have subdued him and discover he is not breathing. They call for EMS.”
Bodycam audio from (police): “Black male heavyset, unresponsive.”
Garcia-Buckalew: “Deputies perform CPR for four minutes until EMS arrives.”
Bodycam audio from (police): “Wake up – get his pulse.”
Garcia-Buckalew: “Minutes later when EMS brought Javier Ambler to the hospital, he was dead. A death in custody report filed with the attorney general noted that Javier did not attempt to, nor did he assault deputies; he did not verbally threaten others nor attempt to get control of any officers’ weapons. According to an autopsy report sent to the attorney general’s office, Javier died from congestive heart failure in combination with forcible restraint. His death was ruled a homicide, but the report noted that it was justifiable homicide. The Williamson County Sheriff’s Office internal affairs investigation concluded that the deputies had done nothing wrong. Javier’s last words were “save me.”
RELATED: Javier Ambler's family sues Williamson County, hires lawyer representing George Floyd's relatives
Moore: “And this person is asking you to save them. And it’s just falling on deaf ears like you think it's a joke. You know, like who with a heart … what human being could harm somebody. And hear their cries and not find it in your heart. And say, okay, we need to save this person. Even if you don't know him just being human, you have to have some type of something in your heart telling you this is wrong. They killed somebody and they tried to hide it. they need to be arrested.”
Garcia-Buckalew: “The story could have ended there. Perhaps another sad tale of justice denied. But there was something else that shined a new light on the pursuit and death of Javier Ambler.
Plohetski: “Also contained in the reports I did get at that time were references to the television show "Live PD." And so in addition to learning why and how this all started, it also became clear that Live PD was going to become part of this narrative, part of this story about what happened to Javier Ambler. Live PD was a television reality show, a highly-rated extraordinarily popular television reality show. The Williamson County Sheriff's Office started participating in Live PD in 2018.”
Garcia-Buckalew: “Live PD was a popular cable TV reality show that followed police officers in the course of their patrols – live. The show broadcasts police encounters with the public – amid often featured high-speed chases. The Williamson County Sheriff’s Office was among the participating law enforcement agencies around the country that allowed Live PD cameras to ride along.”
Plohetski: “And so that night Live PD was riding out with deputies J.J. Johnson and Camden really for that purpose. They were not broadcasting live, but they were there with cameras in both of their cars.
Garcia-Buckalew: "Was there a connection, do you believe, between the nature of the pursuit over what seems to be a minor traffic violation and the fact that there was a camera crew in the same car with the deputies?"
Plohetski: Well, that's one of the big questions that I think experts and other people raised after the details of Javier Ambler’s death and what happened to him that night became known. And I think the question is one that still really hangs out there: and that is whether or not, and in what way, if any, law enforcement officials and those two deputies that night felt compelled to do up to gin up their actions or their conduct to make good television. And if you ask the family of Javier Ambler, if you ask investigators who have been involved in this case, their answer to that question is a resounding yes. But for having television cameras in the car, potentially none of this would have happened that night or may not have happened in the same way that it did. Just the mere presence of those television cameras could possibly incite deputies to make good television instead of providing sound and prudent law enforcement.”
Garcia-Buckalew: Live TV cameras were with the two deputies that night, although the video was not being seen live, but instead recorded for possible later use on the program. After the incident, investigators wanted to see the video, and after getting no response from the Live PD producers, eventually they learned that the video had been destroyed. And any additional video from the dashcams on the patrol cars that the deputies drove that night was also being kept from investigators. Over a year after Javier’s death, the sheriff of Williamson County, Robert Chody, received some news. A grand jury indicted Sheriff Chody on an evidence tampering charge relating to the destruction of the Live PD footage that showed deputies chasing and using force on Javier Ambler.”
Williamson County D.A Shawn Dick: “This offense is a third-degree felony, which carries a punishment range of two years to 10 years in the Texas department of criminal justice, institutional division or probation, and up to a $10,000 fine.”
Garcia-Buckalew: “And additional criminal charges against the sheriff could be in the offing, as the district attorney in neighboring Travis County, where the chase ended, is also pursuing felony evidence tampering charges against the sheriff related to events that happened in Austin on the night Javier died. Chody denies any wrongdoing and says the indictment is an effort to make him lose his next election as sheriff.”
Then-sheriff Robert Chody: “We’re now about a month from an election, and the D.A. is just now acting on a case that is nearly two years old. The facts are very clear and let me be clear. I did not tamper with evidence.”
Garcia-Buckalew: “Weeks later, voters in Williamson county elected a new sheriff. Chody lost the election. Obviously, so many unanswered questions surround Javier’s death. At the time when his car came to stop and officers handcuffed him, why didn’t they listen to his pleas for help, or hear him tell them that he had congestive heart failure? After all, he was obese and breathing heavily. Gregory Gilbertson is a criminal justice professor at Centralia College in Washington. He's consulted as a police use-of-force expert on more than one hundred court cases.”
Gregory Gillbertson: “I think the officers’ actions were excessive. I think they should have believed him. They should have stopped using force against him. Quite honestly, the use of force, in my view at that point, should have been mitigated, if not really stopped. And they should've allowed him to perhaps just sit on the ground as long as he wasn’t attempting to fight them or escape.”
Garcia-Buckalew: “Another question – did the presence of camera crews inside the patrol cars encourage the officers to make a traffic stop simply because a driver – Javier – didn’t lower his high beam headlights? Before she left office, Travis County District Attorney Margaret Moore, whose civil rights division continues investigating the case, suggested that the camera crews may have been a contributing factor that led to a car chase.”
Travis County D.A. Margaret Moore: “The question is what part did the TV cameras play in the case of Mr. Ambler?”
Garcia-Buckalew: “Shortly after the Javier Ambler story made national headlines, the cable network A&E announced that it was canceling the Live PD series. A network statement said, likely in reference to recent nationwide protests calling for racial justice: 'this is a critical time in our nation’s history and we have made the decision to cease production on Live PD.' There was no mention of Javier’s case in their statement. Meantime, Javier’s family and friends hold occasional rallies to keep the circumstances around his death in the hearts and minds of the public.”
Kim Moore, Ambler's sister: “I hope that one day we will be able to get some kind of justice. No matter what type of justice. But we need some kind of justice. Some kind of response and hold these people accountable for what they do.”
Garcia-Buckalew: “And the family keeps the bigger picture in mind. The irony and the tragedy of George Floyd’s death in Minneapolis as he told the officers who were restraining him, 'I can’t breathe.' The words Javier Ambler had used more than a year before George Floyd’s death."
Moore: “The systems not made for us. Is that made to save us? Does not mean to protect us. And until we learn and get out and make the right choices on who we have in office – that's not just at the president level but out in your own city and state that you live in. You're not going to get anywhere. You need people in there that are for you, that are for mankind, that want the best for everybody and wants everyone to be treated the same. My faith is too strong. I come from a family that we know where our power comes from. We know who is in charge of all this. And people could be optimistic or pessimistic, whatever, based off of past cases and situations. But that doesn't change my faith at all. You know, I pray to somebody that I know does not bless negative, hateful people. And what they did to my brother was negative, was hateful, and he's a child of God, just like the rest of us. and he deserved better.”
Episode 2 The death of Mike Ramos
A mysterious phone call to police leads to the shooting death of an unarmed man by a cop. Maybe it's OK to shoot at fleeing suspects in the movies, but in real life, some call it murder.
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Episode 3 The death of Atatiana Jefferson
A young woman hears a noise coming from her backyard late at night. She looks out her bedroom window to see what’s causing it and is fatally shot. Who was her killer and why did he do it?
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Episode 4 The death of Jonathan Price
When a friendly unarmed man reaches out to shake the hand of a police officer in a small Texas town, the cop fires his gun and kills him. The story of hometown hero Jonathan Price and the cop who shot him for no apparent reason.
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Episode 5 The death of Jordan Edwards
Jordan Edwards was a promising high school athlete, loved by his teachers, friends and family. As he rode in a car leaving a neighborhood party in the Dallas area, a police officer pulled out a rifle and killed him. Why did the cop do it? Did the kid's family ever get the justice they deserve?
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